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Four Super Anal Questions About Form 47SP
Old 25th September 2013, 12:18 PM   #1
YankeeDoodle
 
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Default Four Super Anal Questions About Form 47SP

Hi there everyone in Australian migration limbo/hell! How are things?

I have a few questions about my 47SP form for my visa subclass 309 application. The call center for Australian immigration didn't know the answers, so I've come to you all for help.

As background info- I'm American, my partner is British and an Australian permanent resident. We have been together for over a year. We are now living (more like traveling) in New Zealand. I am on a NZ work and holiday visa. We have been in NZ since July this year.

Here are my questions-

1. I have been estranged from my father and my half brothers and sisters for more than 15 years. Shall I leave Part D sections 29 and 30 blank then? I would rather not get in touch with them to find out their full names and birthdays.

2. Part I- Character is states "Have you or any other person included in this application ever been convicted of a crime?" Now, I have NOT ever been convicted of a crime, but my partner has (possession of cannabis, fine paid. Off my partner's record now.) So my questions is, is my partner included in the application or not? He is my sponsor so he's not included in my application, no? People included in my application are myself and any family members or dependents I might have (there are none). So should I tick "yes" and list my partner's conviction, or not?

3. In section 73 we must list our visited countries. I have not been in NZ for more than 12 months, so does that go in the visited section? Or does NZ go nowhere?

4. In section 74 there is a column for "Names of members of your family unit in this application who lived there." My partner is NOT a member of my family unit, correct? Family unit applies to mother, sister, etc, right?

Yes, these questions are really anal, I know. But I feel so out of control of the situation that every little detail seems to count for so much.

Thanks in advance everyone. Much appreciated!!
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Old 25th September 2013, 12:54 PM   #2
nvoorst
 
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1. Don't leave it blank
2. Your partner is not included in your application
3. Yes, you must include it.
4. Your partner is a member of your family unit, but is not included in the application.The other members of your family are not included in the application either.

The real fun starts with form 80. The trick is to read the questions very carefully.Maybe you should consider getting an agent, before you do your head in ?
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Thanks!
Old 25th September 2013, 01:18 PM   #3
YankeeDoodle
 
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Default Thanks!

Thanks, nvoorst.

Yes, I have considered going with a migration agent. But the ones I have contacted want to charge me upwards of $3,000 to fill-out the forms for me and answer any questions I may have. I've already filled-out the forms, my partner and I have already written our histories of our relationship, we've already gotten stat decs, and printed out required evidence. So I don't think I need anyone to "do" anything for me, unfortunately.

Because of this, I would rather simply get help as and when I need it.

What would be helpful, is if I could have have someone review my application in its entirety before I lodge it. Then they could give advice on changes or additions, if needed.

Unfortunately, that service does not seem to be offered by any agents. They want to hold my hand from the beginning. And since I've already begun...

Anyway, thanks again for clarifying the questions I had.

I haven't even looked at form 80. Baby steps! I don't want to get stressed and scared just yet!
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Old 25th September 2013, 04:33 PM   #4
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I have on occasion reviewed DIY applications for people , but the problem is that if we don't deal with the entire process, including lodgement, then we don't really have any control over the actual application.We are however still responsible for any advice we give. That's why most agents don't want to review or deal with DIY applications.

I don't know about the agents you have contacted, but I ,and most of the colleagues I know, do a lot more than the basic services you describe. Keep in mind that the process may take up to 12 months and that most agents will deal with the Department of Immigration and any issues that may arise on your behalf until the application has been decided.

Our fees are modest in comparison to what the Department of Immigration charges to process the application.It is an expensive business to be in with high registration fees, professional indemnity insurance, subscription to legal data bases and the ongoing professional development courses we have to do to keep abreast of the constant changes.

Ultimately it is a matter of choice and convenience and not unlike engaging an accountant,a bookkeeper or a tradesman. Some people are confident and capable to do their own stuff, others rather pay a professional to do it for them.
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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances. Migration advice can only be provided after a contract has been entered into and the required fee has been paid.
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Old 26th September 2013, 12:05 PM   #5
YankeeDoodle
 
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I agree with you. I am confident in doing my own application, therefore I have not sought out the help of a migration agent.

Also, while I understand that migration agents offer many services, for some, including myself, the charges for said services are not within my budget constraints.

I can understand why agents prefer to help from the beginning, but there are folks out there like me, who want to do the application themselves, but still require a bit of help. Agents are missing out on entire group of potential customers if they provide only one service to one type of customer.

Since I cannot afford to pay for all the services of an agent, wouldn't it behoove agents to offer their extensive knowledge doing "final reviews."

I would mostly definitely pay an agent to look over my application before I lodge it and have him/her say, "I think you need to do this, this, and this. And add this and this. And then you're good to go. Best of luck! See ya!" Heck, I would happily pay to just have someone say, "Nah, you're good. You don't need to change or add anything. Bye bye" and have it end there.

If agents offered the services I need, they'd get some of my dollars.
But as it is, agents get zero of my dollars because they offer only the whole hog, when all I want is a pork chop, so to speak.

Nevertheless, I completely understand that agents are liable for the advice they give, so they would rather be more hands on in order to have more control over the entire outcome of the process.

So, I have a question. Do agents get a special phone number or something that gives them a a direct dial right to immigration? I understand that if I lodge the application myself, only I can inquire about the process. But if I have an agent lodge it, we both can inquire. What's the deal with that? You guys get special treatment, huh!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvoorst View Post
I have on occasion reviewed DIY applications for people , but the problem is that if we don't deal with the entire process, including lodgement, then we don't really have any control over the actual application.We are however still responsible for any advice we give. That's why most agents don't want to review or deal with DIY applications.

I don't know about the agents you have contacted, but I ,and most of the colleagues I know, do a lot more than the basic services you describe. Keep in mind that the process may take up to 12 months and that most agents will deal with the Department of Immigration and any issues that may arise on your behalf until the application has been decided.

Our fees are modest in comparison to what the Department of Immigration charges to process the application.It is an expensive business to be in with high registration fees, professional indemnity insurance, subscription to legal data bases and the ongoing professional development courses we have to do to keep abreast of the constant changes.

Ultimately it is a matter of choice and convenience and not unlike engaging an accountant,a bookkeeper or a tradesman. Some people are confident and capable to do their own stuff, others rather pay a professional to do it for them.
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Old 26th September 2013, 12:30 PM   #6
nvoorst
 
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Agents don't get special treatment as such, but they deal with processing centres and case officers on a daily basis and may have access to direct emails and phone numbers because of that regular interaction. There is normally no need to contact the processing centres, especially in the case of complete, well-prepared applications and they don't particularly like people inquiring about progress. Service Standards very wildly between different processing centres.There are agents who do reviews and I have provided that service myself at times.When I do, I get people to sign a disclaimer, because anything could happen to the application after I have seen it. Like most agents I am usually too busy dealing with complete applications, so these sort of minor jobs are not a real priority.In some cases the applications are so poorly prepared that we'd end up doing most of the work anyway and it can be hard to draw the line between doing all the work or just reviewing it.
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Android: AUS VISA

Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances. Migration advice can only be provided after a contract has been entered into and the required fee has been paid.
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Old 27th September 2013, 12:32 AM   #7
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I occasionally have people want us to review the application they've put together. I refuse. It's not the money issue. We have plenty to keep us busy, and we don't load up clients with anything unnecessary. It's just that there's so much more to an application that just ticking the right boxes on a few forms. The forms are the easy part! We need to:

- Assess the applicant (and the relationship) to see if they meet the criteria written in the Migration Regulations for that particular visa Subclass. We need to know all about them, their families and/or children, and their current and any previous relationships.

- Decide what documents and items of evidence we require from them, and explain that clearly to the clients. We do this with a customised checklist which is different for every client (as it's based on the previous assessment of them), and reinforce this with guidebooks and videos.

- Gather and check all the collected documents and items of evidence for their accuracy and suitability. And I would guarantee you every single client gets this wrong even after we explain it all to them, so there's a lot of fine-tuning.

- Be on-hand to answer dozens or even hundreds of emails from the client over the course of the application preparation.

- Prepare the client for how to deal with the Department (and how NOT to deal with the Department), and how to get through the process without turning into a nervous wreck.


Merely checking to see if the correct boxes are ticked? We can't do this if we don't know the case inside and out. And knowing that people rely on us for expert advice, it would be irresponsible to spend 1/2 an hour checking the forms and to give it the thumbs-up and sending the clients away confident.

I've never even once had a client say to me at the end "Hey, there wasn't much to this, and I don't think I got my moneys worth." Not once! I would guess that Nick and other RMA's would be able to say the same?
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Old 27th September 2013, 10:25 AM   #8
YankeeDoodle
 
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nvoorst- Well, you sound a cut above the rest of the other migration agents I've been talking to. And I'm sorry to hear that you've received poorly done applications wanting a quick and cheap review done by you. I can see why you make them sign a disclaimer! You've made a great point about not being able to draw the line between reviewing it and re-doing it for them. I think though in my case, I might have too much attached to my application (stat decs, emails, phone records, photos, travel reservations, bank statements, etc etc.)

downundervisa- Yeah, you haven't convinced me yet. I understand for those "edge" cases an agent might prove helpful. But I feel my case is pretty cut and dry and straightforward. I'm just having trouble with the language of the application at times. For example, the date when the de facto relationship began and the date when we decided to commit to a shared life sound like they should be the exact same date to me! Why are they two separate questions?!?!

Anyway, it's all a moot point. I currently cannot afford the costs associated with the services most agents offer. I moved to NZ for a job offer but the employers changed the terms of employment on me a week after I arrived. They halved the salary! Scandalous! So now I'm jobless and in a legal battle. So employment lawyers are getting all my savings. Migration lawyers unfortunately won't be getting anything until my job situation gets sorted.

And now I've just guaranteed the two of you will refrain from answering further questions I may post on this site! Burning bridges, woo hoo!
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Old 27th September 2013, 01:15 PM   #9
nvoorst
 
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I suggest that you cut your losses with the employment lawyers, spend it on a good migration agent instead and move to Oz as fast as you can. Pay rates are better here anyway. That's why half of NZ has already moved here..You will earn the agent fees back in no time...
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Registered Migration Agent 0640648

Contact

www.ausvisa.net.au

Get the APP:
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Android: AUS VISA

Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances. Migration advice can only be provided after a contract has been entered into and the required fee has been paid.
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Old 27th September 2013, 01:22 PM   #10
downundervisa
 
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Jeffrey Peter Harvie Registered Migration Agent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeDoodle View Post
downundervisa- Yeah, you haven't convinced me yet. I understand for those "edge" cases an agent might prove helpful. But I feel my case is pretty cut and dry and straightforward.
Not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just explaining how it is, and why I only ever manage complete cases. EVERYBODY feels their case is straight forward. I don't see too many "edge" cases. Most of them ARE straight forward, however none are such that I would be prepared to just check over the forms alone.

Good luck with your application.
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Jeff Harvie

Registered Migration Agent MARN 0959797

Offices in Brisbane QLD, and (main office) Manila Philippines


Email Me

www.downundervisa.com.au,
www.filipinawives.com.au,
www.fiancevisaphilippines.com.au,
www.spousevisaphilippines.com.au
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